Advice welcome

11.01.2004

I took the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test today. I thought it'd be a test just to qualify for OCS (Office Candidate School). Instead, it's the basic test everyone who's thinking of joining the military takes. I tested w/ a group of high school seniors & recent graduates (and at least one dropout). Certainly an interesting three-hour experience.

I scored a 96/99. Meaning I certainly qualify for OCS & the recruiter who's been talking to me got really excited.

I make no decision (even an informal one) until 5pm next Monday. At that point, I still wouldn't be committed to anything, but I'd start the paperwork to join the Reserves — and attend basic training & OCS sometime next summer (most likely).

This is mostly me thinking out loud, but also asking for opinions/advice. First, I plan on finishing my PhD, w/ the idea of being pretty close to a final draft by early May 2005. Second, I plan on entering the job market sometime in the Fall of 2005, looking for a tenure track position at a small liberal arts college. These two things aren't changing. I would serve in the Reserves (1 weekend a moth, 2 weeks a year) while pursuing an academic career.

If you're gonna try talking me out of it w/ the argument that I might get killed in Iraq, you're wasting your time. I just want to say that right off the bat. While I'm certainly not looking forward to rushing off to the front, no one should join the armed forces w/o entertaining that possibility. If that obligation fell upon me, I'd be duty & honor bound to accept the responsibility. After all, for every person who refuses to go, someone else goes in their place.

I'm really looking for helpful advice here, from friends & family & well-wishers. Feel free to chime in (email privately, if you prefer). I don't make such decisions lightly, but I do make them decisively.

If you're wondering what specifically I'm interested in, it's military intelligence.

Posted by Miguel at 06:41 PM

Comments

My advice: go for it.

I'd be honored to work in that area for my country.

Posted by: Stephanie at November 1, 2004 06:55 PM

Inquire about whether or not you can visit a unit before making a decision. Look around and see if the life they are leading is the one you might want for yourself. That's the first bit of advice I can give you. I can't imagine them turning you down.

Don't allow them to hurry you into a decision. Make your decision because you're ready, not because they need an answer before you're ready to make it.

One thing to seriously think about is that once you join, you are not an American with constitutional rights anymore. You are subject to the UCMJ, and your life is no longer what you're used to. Be sure that's not something that will ever cause you to think twice about your decisions.

Also, even if you get into MI, you may not stay in MI. You could sign up for MI, think you have a guarantee, but you'll end up in infantry. Talking to you, I didn't see that as a problem, but to be honest, being infantry sucks, and the people you'll work with (the other officers) can be some of the stupidest people you will ever come across. Remember, those stupid people will be making decisions that might mean your life or death.

Posted by: Duane Gundrum at November 1, 2004 07:33 PM

Thanks. Yeah, I've no real problem w/ line infantry, if that's what it comes down to. Essentially, I'll only make a decision if I can live w/ all the consequences.

Also, I'm not going to decide whether to join or not by Monday. But I specifically asked the recruiter whether going through a physical obligated me. He said it didn't; but that I should be "decided in my heart" before I start doing all the paperwork. Prior to that, I'll carefully read over everything I sign. So I want to take this week (I insisted on it) to think it over, talk to my dad & brothers, etc. before I decide to start going through any more things (like they physical, gathering letters of recommendation & transcripts, etc).

And I really do appreciate your concerns, Duane, since you've served. Fortunately (for me at least) I actually do believe in many of the seemingly-stupid things involved in military life (though "knowing about" and "living with" are two different things, of course).

Oh, a problem w/ visiting a unit before I join (for me) is that I've no idea where I'd end up. So visiting a unit would be good, but it most likely wouldn't be the unit I'd end up at. Assuming I get a nice teaching job somewhere, that could be in any of the 50 states (though I might draw the line at Alaska).

Posted by: Miguel [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 1, 2004 07:45 PM

Miguel,
You are such an ambitious person with impressive goals so close in reach. As honored as you would be to serve this country, the United States and the citizens who live here would be equally honored to have such a brilliant person serving. As an objectivist and strategist with excellent communication skills, I can see you doing a superb job in the area of military intelligence.
You are so close to finishing your PhD and seem anxious to find a teaching position out east. My cousin is in the Reserves and I am aware of the duties. If you were called to duty, beyond the one weekend a month, two weeks a year commitment, is it likely that you would be granted leave from a new teaching assignment? I'm curious how that works. If a person is serving in the military and is called to duty, are they entitled to their previous employment upon return from duty?
Best of luck to you while making this decision, and as for your score on the ASVAB, very impressive! Nice going Miguel.

Sara

Posted by: sara at November 1, 2004 07:50 PM

I'll play the non-sugar-coated devil's advocate. (the devil's my favorite client.)

The starting point:

1) Why? For some abstract idea of patriotism? Of "doing for your country"? B/c abstract ideas such as patriotism are bullshit, sandtraps for romantic suckers. For excitement? In both cases, you'll likely feel pretty rediculous should you (God forbid) suffer grevious bodily injury in Iraq, like having your legs blown off. Ideas like patriotism and doing-for-excitement fall to pieces when you can't shit by yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm considering the reserves, too. I'm just throwing out arguments people have dished out to me over the past. Also from experience: My dad was in Vietnam, Grandad in WWII, Great-Grandad in WWI. Both Uncles fought in Vietnam, one lost half a leg, both came back significantly psychologically fucked-up heroin addicts. They've all lobbied hard against my seeking commission. The most compelling plea comes from my significant other, who I'm more likely to listen to than anyone else.

Just playing the devil's advocate.

Posted by: tom at November 1, 2004 10:24 PM

I think the military would be great for bringing real life examples back to the classroom. But to be honest, I would have to agree with Tom. The thought of losing someone I know in a war scares me. My brother is in the air force and the thought of him going to war makes me quite sad and scared. But it sounds like you are pretty intent on joining, so good luck. I hpoe your experiences are good ones.

Posted by: Kara at November 1, 2004 11:06 PM

2) I don't buy the "put your money where your mouth is" defense of the country argument. There's got to be a personal incentive. How does being an Army reservist benefit YOU?

(I can understand the motive of an end-game desire to work for the DIA or CIA, but you haven't said anything of that nature.)

Posted by: tom at November 1, 2004 11:46 PM

Moreover, you most likely at various times be forced to take shit from people you consider your inferior (in "superior-inferior" military parlance). I've always had a hard time taking shit from morons.

Posted by: tom at November 2, 2004 12:16 AM

I hope my friends will join intelligence work or do research on terrorism.

Posted by: Stephanie at November 2, 2004 03:25 AM

Not being well informed about the duty of army reserves, I might be well of the mark....

but

have you carefully considered (not only with your brain but also with your heart) if you can bear taking another life?

I mean, doing the patriotic thing sounds like an idea full of honor and pride... will it still sound like that if you actually have to shoot someone like from point blank range?

I am saying this because in late 1944 my father patriotically joined the German defense of Brandenburg/Berlin as a 16 year old with his whole class only to be disillusioned quickly. Only one third of his class survived 1945. He is still troubled by his war experience. The older he gets the worse it becomes.

(Of course, being in the US you know all this. Enough veterans around from previous wars, but seing my father made a deep impression on me)

Ok, I can imagine that being in the reserve will not make actual fighting a likely neccessity... I guess active soldiers go first to the front lines and being in intelligence might mean a lot of office work, too
but... if the reserve was really so unlikely to get involed in actual fighting, then it would not be needed, right?

What I am saying is, go if you feel you must.

Listening to my heart... I would only be able to kill someone in direct self defense... if the enemy is right at my door step. An abstract concept of (preemptive)self-defense would not be enough to quiet my concern of taking lives, both as a catholic and as a human being in general.

Posted by: Marco at November 2, 2004 06:32 AM

I'm not going to comment too much on whether you should join or not. I am just chiming in to warn you that the recruiters will pester the living daylights out of you to join. I made the mistake of taking the ASVAB when I was a college junior. The idea was to perhaps enter the military bands as a reservist. (I was a music major and the idea of having a relatively minor time commitment to perform wasn't bad.) I decided not to go into it, but these people were on me non-stop for weeks and even went so far as to just show up at my house one afternoon. THAT was fucked up.

As far as signing up for you - if you're really interested in intelligence work, I'd suggest investigating other avenues as well. Such as, being a special consultant for one of the intel agencies. I have a cousin who worked Navy intel @ the Pentagon and a college buddy who's a Secret Service Field Officer. I'm sure either of them would be willing to offer their perspectives, should you be interested.

Posted by: cat at November 2, 2004 08:52 AM

For what I can gather, you are joining the ranks, right? or because of your education you will have a higher rank. If so, have you though about you might be over qualified with your PhD?

I know the CIA doesn't take PhDs for DOI. I am guessing, the Army will take anyone right now. :-)

Posted by: MB at November 2, 2004 10:19 AM

Miguel,

In response to, well, your response to Duane:
Oh, a problem w/ visiting a unit before I join (for me) is that I've no idea where I'd end up. So visiting a unit would be good, but it most likely wouldn't be the unit I'd end up at. Assuming I get a nice teaching job somewhere, that could be in any of the 50 states (though I might draw the line at Alaska).

I don't think the point was visiting the unit you would be joining, but simply a unit in general. In that way you would come closer to the experience of what you will be involved with, and while it may not be the specific people you would be working with, it may give you a better handle on the type of people/situations you will encounter. I think it would be a really good idea to visit a unit just for first-hand experience.

=Josh

Posted by: Josh at November 2, 2004 10:52 AM